“I’m missing something,” you’ll say … LOUISE: Well, first of all, I think the first line of defence is to get it right, and that's going back to the legal side of things, the fact checking side of things, to make sure that you're on solid ground. In fact, Cardinal: The Rise and Fall of George Pell is neither of the above. Pell to the parish school of St. Allipius. LOUISE: Look, at the moment, I'm just going to focus on Four Corners. It was wonderful book and it did make waves. l even spoke to a boarder recently and he said they were a tight little group with only good memories. His latest is a forensic analyses of Louise Milligan’s book CARDINAL. It's just not necessary. So she wrote a rambling response which was published in The Age yesterday. The only thing l like from this book is the front cover. Fr. Louise Milligan (Louise Milligan) is a popular research journalist who worked on ABC's Four Corners program. ABC investigative journalist Louise Milligan, who broke stories about abuse in the Catholic church for ABC TV programs 7.30 and Four Corners says her award-winning book … Louise Milligan is an investigative reporter for ABC TV's Four Corners and the bestselling author of Cardinal, which won the Walkley Book Award and broke massive international news about the court case and successive and ultimately successful appeals involving one of the most senior members of the Catholic Church hierarchy. Louise Milligan is an investigative reporter for ABC TV's Four Corners and the bestselling author of Cardinal: The Rise and Fall of George Pell, which won the Walkley Book Award and broke massive international news about the court case and successive and ultimately successful appeals involving one of the most senior members of the Catholic Church hierarchy. She's been in the trenches there with me, and it's been a very difficult process, and she lost her job at MUP during that process, in what I found, a profoundly, profoundly unfair process by the University of Melbourne, and one that I felt... if I was a student, I would feel really, really concerned about, because it was a major cultural institution interfering in the editorial independence of its publishing house. I really appreciate it. Are you all right? Thank you so much, Louise. She has such a huge passion for life, and for people, and for books and stories, and she's just a force of nature. ASTRID: I'm not quite sure how to phrase this question, Louise. On 28 July 2016, the day after the ABC TV 7.30 program gave its reporter Louise Milligan an entire 30 minutes to launch her Pell prosecution, Victoria Police chief Graham Ashton appeared on Neil Mitchell’s 3AW program. But not Louise Milligan – the 2017 Golden Quill Winner – who loves criticising others but is too scared to answer her own correspondence. Milligan and her supporters have a lot at stake in prosecuting the case against George Pell. It's different to anything else that you can produce in journalism that might on a screen or a television set, or a newspaper, a magazine. She pieces together a series of disturbing pictures of the Cardinal's knowledge and his actions, many of which are being told here for the first time. However, that's still really not enough to go into all of the nuances of a particular issue, so that's one thing. They're the things that I'm really drawn to, where people who have voices that would not otherwise be heard, that I can give them the opportunity to be heard. I've had very good reviews for the book, which is a huge relief, and the legal profession has been very welcoming of the book, which again, is a... well, not so much a relief. What makes Louise a good publisher? Louise, I teach writing and I know many students, many writers, shy away from writing some of the stories they really want to write, because they're afraid of how the world will deal with them and they are afraid of the backlash against them personally, as the person who is bringing it to light. There's no other forum in society where it would happen. To me, it seems more like a case of poorly used language…. She is a well-educated person. I just want them to think about, how would you feel if this was your wife, or your daughter, or your son? A couple of extracts are below, starting with AC introducing LM. I was being subjected to this barrage of media nonsense, but I was also, as I write about in the book, being pursued by a person who was threatening to kill me, over and over again, and in very specific ways, and trying to get the police to act on that. The ABC is also a Conservative-Free-Zone – without a conservative presenter, producer or editor in any of its prominent programs. It was very, very, well-known, and I don't want to go into that because it's all done and dusted now, but I was a witness in his committal proceeding, and it was an absolutely excoriating process. So it was a very weird process and I was exhausted by the end of it. I have great affection for barristers. According to Melbourne University Press, Cardinal uncovers “uncomfortable truths about a culture of sexual entitlement, abuse of trust and how ambition can silence evil” in the Catholic Church. It went through witness, went through many, many layers of checking by the solicitors who act for the publisher. And there was one man in particular, Patrick Noonan, who spoke in that story, who is a barrister, and his son was starting at St. Kevins two weeks before the story went to air. LM then speaks of her experience at the committal. Louise Milligan seems to believe that an author is entitled to believe what he or she wants to believe if it is in line with their thesis. That can't happen to teenagers. I went over to the UK, and it was all about the marketing of the Royals and the finances of the Royals, and it ended up being quite a hard story to do in lots of ways, because we had to do most of the research from Australia, and so I was working opposite hours and whatever, but I do remember the lawyers at the end of it... so we have a meeting where everyone in the show watches the first rough cut, as we call it. George Pell guiding its direction. But that is very common for people from St. Kevins. How do we know that?’ And we go back to primary source material, and check with that. In an email forwarded to me on 30 May 2017, MUP chief executive Louise Adler wrote that Cardinal is an “important contribution to the community’s understanding of the Catholic Church’s response to child abuse”. It was a private school run by the nuns of the Sisters of Mercy order, with Fr. Paris Street's bravery led to widespread cultural change at that school, but what I wanted to show with this book is that five years down the track from him being involved in the legal system, he is still traumatised by that experience, and he's as traumatised by this experience in court, and by the institutional betrayal of his school, as he was by the crime that was committed against him by an athletics coach who groomed him as 15-year-old boy. Louise Milligan is an investigative reporter for ABC TV's Four Corners.Her first book was Cardinal: The rise and fall of George Pell (2017), which won the Walkley Book Award and broke massive international news about the court case and successive and ultimately successful appeals involving one of the most senior members of the Catholic Church hierarchy. Received the @ReadingsBooks Summer Reading Guide and delighted to see my book Witness ( @HachetteAus ) recommended as “bracing and essential” and written with “forensic, compassionate clarity”. They all knew it was coming, and I have sent the book to some of the people that I named. And so, I did this story. Obviously, Cardinal, your first book, got a lot of publicity. And after his knowledge, those people went on to abuse many other children terribly, and I know the families of some of the people who took their lives, and pain that they go through. Indeed, the book’s title anticipates his fall. The tormentor of the Catholic Church in Australia stepped out of a taxi in Kings Cross, walked to the boot to get her suitcase, and watched the car speed away. I've just been exhausted, so it's really nice to hear people say that this is a good book, that this is something that needed to be said, because I felt so strongly about it. As a kid, if that was Fr. If I wrote something, I went back and just checked the primary source material. ASTRID: I got a little chill when you said that you are proud, because I think, and this is just a personal opinion, but I think that the power of truth-telling and the written word, it can change things, and you are one of the people in Australia who are changing things by telling stories, real stories. Not just the system, though, the people in the system. LM then speaks of her experience at the committal. Now, not just paedophile priests. THE TEN HOWLERS IN LOUISE MILLIGAN’S CARDINAL. Now, that's part of the process, really, in a court case. It led to the entire leadership team of the school leaving, and a number of other teachers being let go, so that was a really big deal for him as a new parent and an Old Boy, and his brother was an Old Boy, and his nephews went to the school. Yeah. The Royal family. Why would you do that? I also love writing. I, obviously, love reading, and I love nonfiction, and I respect what a book is. Congratulations, just a on personal level. Louise Milligan is an investigative reporter for ABC TV's Four Corners and the bestselling author of Cardinal: The Rise and Fall of George Pell, which won the Walkley Book Award and broke massive international news about the court case and successive and ultimately successful appeals involving one of the most senior members of the Catholic Church hierarchy. I could've saved them the trouble and actually, I probably could've avoided some of the tortured prose, but that's another issue. Louise Milligan is an investigative reporter for ABC TV's Four Corners. However, to Milligan, a little bit of unprofessional police behaviour is not a problem when it’s a matter of running the case for the prosecution against George Pell. Many people entrusted their secrets to be told here for the first time. Young Pell, ordained a priest at St Peter’s Basilica in December 1966 to the strains of Bach’s Fantasia in G, would embrace rigid orthodoxy and reject the primacy of the conscience. The book is a testament to the most intimate stories of complainants. I have seen this happen with journalist friends, where they somehow get inveigled into writing a book about something that, really, no one's going to buy in any great... you know what I mean? By Chris S Friel. Louise Milligan pieces together decades of disturbing activities highlighting Pell's actions and cover-ups. As a matter of record, Pell previously appeared once in person before the Royal Commission – and he was not the only witness to appear by video-link. Pell improperly touched them at the Eureka Pool in Ballarat some four decades ago – Milligan declares that Pell “will” be defended by a highly paid Queen’s Counsel. Louise Milligan and Annabel Crabb had a zoom promotional event for Milligan’s latest book Witness in November. Louise Milligan is the only Australian journalist who has been privy to the most intimate stories of complainants. Louise Milligan is the only Australian journalist who has been privy to the most intimate stories of complainants. It was just about that, and Louise read it and she knew Leigh Sales, who I was then working with at the 7:30 program, and she asked Leigh to get in contact with me. I don't understand why, because the High Court ultimately found that there must have been a reasonable doubt in the jury, it decided in its wisdom, that it knew better than the jury who sat and watched every single day of evidence. It always was and always will be Aboriginal land. She's really interested in getting the issues that I am interested in out there to the readers, to the market. Everyone was happily surprised and someone asked what they should now call him, “Your Eminence” or “Father” or just “George” like they used to. The allegations at Pages 88 and 281 – which go to George Pell’s character – are highly damaging. She pieces together a series of disturbing pictures of the Cardinal's knowledge and his actions, many of which are being told here for the first time. The description of George Pell in Louise Milligan’s book certainly doesn’t fit the George Pell the people from St. Francis Xavier College and Aquinas College knew then and still know today. ASTRID: Louise, you've just listed some of the work that you've done this year, which is more than most people produce in a normal year, and 2020 is not a normal year, particularly when you add home-schooling to it. ASTRID: And things brings us to Witness: An investigation into the brutal cost of seeking justice, which is your second book, just published in 2020. Women, again, great champions of my work and good work, and I'm really happy to be there with them. It appears that Louise Milligan’s reluctance to enter into a discussion about Cardinal turns on her determination not to have her case for the prosecution weakened in any way. Well, I think that's a terrible indictment on the system, so that's what Witness is exploring. What is different about publishing a book, than a series of long-form articles in a major respected outlet? I was being advised by an amazing QC, but most people in this situation do not have any of that, and particularly, complainants of sexual crimes do not have any of that, and it made me very determined that when I recovered from the trauma, because I have to say, I was very traumatised by it, and when that whole case was finished, that I would tell this story, and that I would try and seek some answers. LOUISE: I love Louise like a tiger. He would be unlikely to speak so loudly that he could be heard between rooms while (allegedly) attempting to have a secret conversation. I mean, I'm a huge reader, but I wouldn't know how to fact check a manuscript, particularly one that is dealing with real people, court cases, public figures. Louise Milligan pieces together decades of disturbing activities highlighting Pell's actions and cover-ups. As a kid, if that was Fr. Louise Milligan is an investigative reporter for ABC TV's Four Corners.Her first book was Cardinal: The rise and fall of George Pell (2017), which won the Walkley Book Award and broke massive international news about the court case and successive and ultimately successful appeals involving one of the most senior members of the Catholic Church hierarchy. Cardinal was the same thing. During the interview, Ashton referred to the men who had made the allegations about (then) Fr Pell’s activities in the Eureka Poll as “victims”. I could just go back to those, but there is a sense of paranoia because of the permanence of books, and I also said to the publisher, ‘Please fact check it as you go as well’. Because actually, same with the last time that this happened, the vast majority of people supported what we were doing, and it did move the conversation forward, and it did expose things that wouldn't have been known otherwise. In view of this, Cardinal Pell should be given the assumption of innocence prior to a trial and conviction. So, according to Ms Milligan, it’s okay for Victoria Police to classify two men who have made allegations against Cardinal Pell as “victims” before anyone has been charged with an offence – still less convicted. Cardinal is the case for the prosecution with respect to George Pell concerning his contemporary religious beliefs and his (alleged) past assaults on boys. Louise Milligan’s rationalisation of Commissioner Ashton’s error as mere poor expression – which, by the way, was not corrected – demonstrates that Cardinal is not a scholarly work but merely a hatchet job. I mean, not the bad way. How do we know that? You get used to seeing the blood and guts. I just don't think that it's fair. I mean, you were obviously referring to the role that witnesses play in our legal system, the act of being on the stand and being asked questions, but also I felt you were writing into our contemporary literature... You were witnessing what it is like. They would always find an excuse to criticise people who exposed issues with him. I don't set them up as villains in the book. I'm pretty lucky I work for Four Corners. And when lockdown happened at first, the kids were still at school. l loved footy. He was our chaplain, football coach, swimming supervisor, and in charge of taking the few boarders and day kids on outings. As the author (who exhibits scant historical knowledge) should know, the debate on conscience within Catholicism goes back to before the Reformation. Louise Milligan in front of the Magistrates’ Court, 2017 (Subel Bhandari/dpa/Alamy Live News) I would feel like a stalker if I was contacting someone as much as Louise has been. They've been my sources all my career, journalistically, but they're also great fun and they're interesting people, and journalists and barristers tend to get along well. Louise Milligan (Louise Milligan) is a popular research journalist who worked on ABC's Four Corners program. I don't know. She's like, ‘You just need a break, Louise. She found him with boots off and feet in front of the stove in the kitchen. According to MUP, Cardinal is based on “forensic and meticulous” research. He was trying to find reasonable doubts, and for whatever reason, he saw me as quite key to that, and the defence saw me as key to that, and so in the process of that, I was just subjected to this absolute barrage. What are the extra layers of, ‘Should we do this? People who act against immediate superficial self-interest in order to speak up for the truth and expose injustice, that's what we do as journalists. I had all these people contacting me going, ‘Are you okay? Louise Milligan is an investigative reporter for ABC TV's Four Corners and the bestselling author of Cardinal, which won the Walkley Book Award and broke massive international news about the court case and successive and ultimately successful appeals involving one of the most senior members of the Catholic Church hierarchy. Her second work is Witness: An investigation into the brutal cost of seeking justice. I now feel like what doesn't kill you makes you stronger, and so it was interesting when the whole chorus of stuff happened with the Canberra bubble. The thing with the legal system is, there have been incremental changed to help complainant witnesses through the Royal Commission, through law reform commission inquiries, and they keep tweaking, tweaking, tweaking, but they're really not there yet. There's nothing that I can do about that, and there were some pretty bruising times, particularly when the High Court decision happened, because I was feeling so desperately sad for the people who came forward and went through five years of hell, and then this was the ultimate conclusion. Cardinal: The Rise and Fall of George Pell By Louise Milligan. I know that you can write. As a kid, if that was Fr. We acknowledge the Wurundjeri people of the Kulin Nations as the Traditional Owners of the land on which we work. George Pell, the anti-hero of Cardinal, is one of the high profile social conservatives within contemporary Catholicism – and, as such, an enemy of self-proclaimed progressives. That does not appeal to me at all, because I'm too time-poor, to be honest. There are Old Boys' networks that help them to get jobs, and they rise to the top of professions like the law, and they club together. It's almost like a testament to what the system does to people, to individuals. But we had people in that story who were just willing to come forward, because they wanted to speak the truth. I think that happens when you expose something really big. We say, ‘How do we know that? The editor also just independently verifies, is this the correct title, is this the year that this happened, did this person do that. Now, they're not journalists, but they are telling stories, so I recognise that journalism is a profession and has certain securities and norms, but how do you approach that on a personal level? Pell standing there in front of you – you were safe and protected. The Royal Commission accepted medical advice that he was not fit to travel to Australia. Like many journalists, Ms Milligan does not take well to criticism. Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Ben Mathews, Professor, School of Law, Queensland University of Technology Book review: Witness, by Louise Milligan (Hachette). What are the protections for the publishing house?’ I mean, is there an additional layer of, let's tell this story but protect the story and the people involved in putting it in print? Louise Milligan is an investigative reporter for the ABC TV program Four Corners, based in Melbourne. Milligan’s book has been a boon for Australia’s army of anti-Catholic bigots. And inevitably, as an individual, you try really hard to make sure that no things slipped through, but human nature will have it, that it's always good to have second set of eyes, and a third set of eyes. LOUISE: Oh. I mean, the bottom line is, whatever the High Court found, a five-year Royal Commission went through thousands of pages of documents, heard countless hours of evidence, and subjected that to forensic scrutiny, and it found that he knew about some of the worst paedophiles in Australian history. So Cardinal is not an objective analysis of either the Catholic Church or Cardinal George Pell. In trials for sexual crimes, the contest often boils down to one word versus another. In this paper I will critically review Louise Milligan’s Cardinal, drawing chiefly on the 2019 edition published There were a handful boarders and the rest were us day kids. I'm bowled over, because I wrote this book in lockdown. According to the publisher’s blurb, Milligan “is Irish-born and was raised a devout Catholic”. And I thought, ‘Oh God, what is it?’ And she's like, ‘You're going to do the Royals’. It's not going to be a book that is going to change things in any major way. It's not that hard to treat someone with dignity and respect, and also, it doesn't go against your forensic process of finding a reasonable doubt. Despite the fact that there is no evidence that any such conversation ever took place, the author places in direct quotes the recollection of a critic of Cardinal Pell who relates – word for word – a conversation which Pell had with her cousin. Louise Milligan is highly critical of (then) Bishop Pell’s handling of Fr Peter Searson in Melbourne when he (Pell) was an auxiliary bishop – but she fails to mention that, when he became Archbishop of Melbourne, George Pell sacked Searson and refused to abide by a Vatican decision that he be re-instated.